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Author Topic: FringeSpace Requests  (Read 97 times)

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Online JGZinv

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FringeSpace Requests
« on: January 20, 2011, 12:38:13 pm »
Figured I'll throw our 10 cents in too..

Some of these items might have already been implemented, I understand that.
I can't keep track of every thing however, so forgive me if it seems obvious to someone else.
Features often outpace documentation too.


== Needs ==

Key:
L1 - Will need before we'll release something.
L2 - Will need eventually, but we can do without for the time being.
L3 - Would be nice to have, not critical.
L4 - Bugs




L1

- Various Bank & Firepoint Linking Methods -
Chain All, Link Primary, & Link Secondary keys functionality.

Example/explanation video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ggPvq1uEIY

Not sure if making a modfication where all weapons are listed as primary might be the
best route to go here.



- HUD energy system modification possible -

Example/explanation video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3gqS88-LqA



- HUD gauges able to be set to horizontal or vertical fill directions -
 (S/H target indicator bars, ETS system bars, solaris indicator) 

Example/explanation video:
http://youtu.be/AN3JwBztUFs



- HUD distance vs. speed vs. units conversion script updated/fixed. -


Referencing thread:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=66876.msg1321582

Basically the old WCSaga hack to change the HUD values isn't completely
functional. We need both the distance and speed parts usable/separate, and it to go
out to hundreths on the distance display.



- HUD radar orb fix -

Tach's radar is either 4:3 or 16:9 oval, FS2's radar is circular.
Despite a different gauge face, the radar dots are still drawn in FS2's circular pattern.
Best to talk to z64555 about this. I'm working on getting a better explanation.



- Charging weapons possible -

We've got a couple weapons that charge up and dispense a different amount
of damage based on that charge quantity.

Example/explanation video:
http://youtu.be/Fh1sE8O9aKY



L2 / L3


- 2 part shield code -

Wanderer had this out quite a long time ago, few builds ago.
FotG also needed it and chief and I asked for it several times.
Makes the FS2 4 part quadrant shields work as 2 part shields.



- Turn off backface culling -

Has to do with partially transparent objects being troublesome.
Best to talk to z64555 about this. Working on getting a better explanation.



L3

- Editing Missiles Flight Formation -
Our "swarm" (FS2 hornet) flies in a set pattern, we'd like to be able to edit
the hornet flight animation to match the swarm from Tachyon.

Example/explanation video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv8NQ7i2vbs



- Join multiplayer game in progress "working" -

Not really necessary to explain, been around a while as experimental.
Tachyon did this by default.


- "Utility" Targetable Class -

Would like to see a set of classes that modders could set themselves for
special case objects. In this case I want to make all powerups their own class,
and bind a targeting key to cycle items in that class. Similar to looking for
bombs vs. missiles, etc.



L4


- Gliding creates HUD Gauge Issue -

Thrust gauge fill changes in relation to mouse movement/horizon while gliding.

Example/explanation video:
http://youtu.be/Q1BFJQ2YM5w



- Missiles Fly Backwards if Ship in Reverse -


In reverse or using reverse burn, missiles always fly backwards.
 
Example/explanation video:
http://youtu.be/XtBFpkL3_2M



- Mainhall Replacement Camera Script Issue  - 

Example/explanation video:
http://youtu.be/saAw3Tv_MlU

On load the mission starts with the camera moving slowly, and about 30fps.
As soon as it rotates to the 180 degree mark from start, it speeds up and hits 60fps
until it reaches the starting point again and repeats.
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« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 11:30:14 am by JGZinv »
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2011, 04:24:25 pm »
Well we have a default key config override in testing but nothing that would prevent anyone from going in and binding those controlls.
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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2011, 04:34:27 pm »
sparK at one time removed the controls from the exe directly..
but after he left FringeSpace, there wasn't any way to update
newer FSO exes... so it rather quickly died.

An outside config file is all I'm saying would be useful.

Is there a way to lock bindings per say instead / any easier?
Locking unnecessary bindings to empty might suffice.
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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 04:39:29 pm »
Not yet I'm just saying it's already being worked on before someone starts redoing the same work.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 11:24:30 pm »
Yeah. Adding a lock for certain controls would be useful. In order to help, which controls would you need to be able to lock out?

 

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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 11:52:29 pm »
Well, either I can try to compile a list, or I can give you the key chart I made at the
time SparK was removing things.  There's some things with scripting and other new features
that I'd like to swap out... so it's not an exhaustive or complete list per say either way.

Which do you prefer?
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Offline karajorma

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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 12:18:52 am »
I don't need an actual list. The feature would have to be controlled by a table rather than in the code. What I want to know is the type of controls you need to lock out. Joystick buttons? Mouse? Which sort of keys?

 

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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 12:38:13 am »
I sent you a PM with our old key chart and a screen shot of the now defunct bindings menu. Haven't touched it in a couple years,
but it should be fine for illustrative purposes.

Better known as I want to lock out or hide certain functions. Like for example, "targeting bombs (forward/back)"  but keep "targeting missiles (forward/back)" available. Those key functions that are bindable in the options menu.

For the functions we are keeping, I don't care if they are bound to a keyboard, mouse, joystick, or whatever. That part I
have no interest in changing, works fine as is. It's that for our mod, FS2 has far more key functions than necessary or desired.
Rather than present players with a big menu of key bindings that are not valid or could break gameplay, I'd rather them just not show up
at all.
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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 11:28:05 am »
I've updated the first post with a ton of stuff. Please comment on that.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 06:22:31 pm »
Firepoint linking: Too long, didn't watch.  But if I get the gist of your request, do you want to allow large numbers of primary weapons while letting the player link any combination of them?  And do you want the interface to support it?  Cause this smells strongly of a feature that's too complicated to bother with.

HUD energy system modification: Egad, too long again.  Summarize please.

HUD gauges: Still too long, but I skimmed it.  This might be possible with hud_gauges.tbl.  Someone more knowledgeable on that subject would have to chime in.

Unit conversion script: This is a good request AND likely to be filled.  Nobody's currently working on it though.  It would be good low-hanging fruit for a coder who feels like doing a simple feature/bugfix.

Radar orb fix: Can't you change the Tach radar to be circular?  That would strike me as the easiest fix.

Charging weapons: Eugh.  This would be a fun feature, but would involve a fairly significant modification to the primary weapons system.  But FotG might be interested in this too, so unlike the other complicated feature requests this has a better chance of being implemented.  Your best chance here is to persuade a FotG coder.


2-part shields: Chief1983 will have to chime in here.  I know that Wanderer's code from years ago had to be reverted, but I thought somebody else coded 2-part shields recently.

Backface culling: I don't have the expertise to help you here.


Missile flight formation: You'll have to explain exactly what you want here, because all I see is something that looks like a normal Hornet swarm missile.
EDIT: If the only difference is that one missile is in the lead, then that's probably pretty easy.  There's a setting that causes a missile to wait a period of time before accelerating to full speed.  We'd just have to make that time longer for all missiles except the lead one.

Join-in-progress: I dunno.  Bug Karajorma, I guess.  I think this is low-priority.

Utility class: Interesting idea.  Someone with more knowledge of objecttypes.tbl will have to chime in.


Gliding issue: You really need to make shorter videos for the benefit of people who are looking at all your requests at once. :p

Missiles fly backwards: Sounds like a bug.  Is it in Mantis?

Main hall camera script: I didn't watch the video, and I defer to a scripting guy.



So that's my 30-second estimate of each feature request.  Unfortunately, it appears that the difficulty of implementing your feature requests is directly proportional to how important it is for your mod.  Most of your L1 feature requests, at first glance, look like they would be a major overhaul to the FSO codebase.  So I would strongly encourage you to re-evaluate how important those features are.  Remember, the FSO engine is not the Tachyon engine.

Of course, it's possible that I'm misreading your feature requests.  So if you can add a short text summary to each of your requests in addition to the video, that would help.  (The video would certainly be helpful to someone coding the feature, but it's a waste of time for anyone evaluating whether that feature should be added.)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 07:18:32 pm by Goober5000 »
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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 08:19:48 pm »
Goob I appreciate that someone tried to reply to my requests at all, but I'm honestly sitting
here with a facepalm. I went to the extra effort/time to record videos because trying to explain
what I had to show is difficult in words in the first place.

Even if I did explain it, everyone else would still have some part of it they wouldn't quite grasp,
which we'd spend several more posts trying to clear up. Other than the first two all the videos
are around or under 2 minutes. Reading a regular post takes longer than that.


Firepoint linking... again trying to explain it is a heck of a lot harder than showing it off.
The primary/secondary systems is based on a common pool of weapons. So essentially the "secondary" and "primary" labels
our only useful for two things.  1. As a label on the HUD.  2. As a different fire key assignment.

Theory / idea:

Now if I could take all my weapons, list them all as primary, still have missiles, rockets, etc, function as they conceivably would.
That might work as a hack to draw everything from a single "pool."  Would still have to find out how to setup a HUD gauge (fake secondary) that
would be displaying weapons from the primary group, but not the same weapon as the real primary labeled gauge. Provided that much was do-able... it might work. But since I don't know... all I can do is throw it out there and see if there's other ideas, maybe instead fixing it to work "normally" via code rather than a hack around.

The other part of that is various stages of firepoint linking. Some or possibly all of which FotG I believe has based on some of the videos floating around. But there several things I don't know, starting with where FotG got it from and how it was configured.

That's the reason the video is 7 mins long, because it explains and goes through both of the above.


HUD Energy - *rubs temples*  I just tried wring a paragraph, deleted it, and I'm lost. Tach's is mostly the same basic elements/system as FS2.
The functionality and gauge behavior in terms of how each ETS element relates to the other ETS element is a little bit different.


Radar Orb - would you ask Diaspora to change DRADIS to ORECK?  I'd rather look into every other option before making a decision like that.
We're a total conversion, the idea isn't to leave FS2 parts in plain view.

Charging - I hear this a lot... but I've yet to see anyone explain "why" this is such a difficult problem. No that's not noob-to-HLP talking, I've seriously not seen a explanation of what is keeping it from working.  I'm going to take a guess here, and think that it's based on something to do with weapons, ammo, and energy - how FS2 treats them as objects. One issue being how do you spawn a weapon with less giving damage properties, when everything is based on hard numbers in tables.

Spoiler:
To my woefully code uneducated brain, it would seem the answer, if this is the case, would be to handle it in scripting outside of the normal restrictions.

You'd need an outside "container" of sorts for the weapon damage value, so that it could be a variable number.

You'd need one script that would read from your weapons energy amount, and tell the weapon to stop filling should you have no more energy to give it. This also directly tells the container how much value/dmg it can do.

The dmg value could be determined by calculating how long whatever key it is is held down to charge, the duration of the key press, times some numerical increment. Basically a scale. A early version of this could be filling by increments. Such as every key press removes 25% from weapons energy, and gives the same value to the weapons container.

Now, when the fire key is pressed, the values for the container are locked, no more charging can be performed as the weapon has been released.
There's need to be some check though setup for the next time the user wants to fire another shot, so the script goes back to charging after it looks to see if there's any energy left in the weapons reserves to charge with.

As for the weapon, for your table, set the dmg and all that to 0. Most of the features of a weapon, description, etc, should still be applicable. You'd probably need a flag though for "charging" so that it would know to accept/use/look for the scripting elements.

As for the released weapon we have, let the FSO system handle the projectile like elements. You just need to watch for it to have "hit" - which then the rest of the scripted events happen. It would need to know which ship or object was hit. Then the script would translate the value left in the "container" to damage, and apply that to the shield/hull/whatever of the object receiving the attack. When the weapon disappears either by hitting an object or exploding by reaching it's lifetime, the values in the container are also erased, for that instance of the fired weapon.



Missile flight - A hornet flies in swirls or curls like a spring all together. I want to edit that so I can make it fly in a different formation. One missile out front with a trailing triangle-esque 3 point pattern of missiles trailing the first.  It's designed like a penetrator. First hit weakens the shield, then the main salvo smashes the target.


Gliding comment - I "didn't" intend for everyone to look at all of them at once. Most people specialize in a couple areas.

Missiles - No, because I'm not entirely sure it's a bug. Trying to show/discuss it to figure out what it is...



Surely the Tachyon engine is not the FSO engine. Tachyon was a nearly unmoddable, labor of love by a group of devs that was unfinished. It was abandoned by it's publisher. It has no where near the support that FS2 ever saw. Which is why we are here.

A major portion of the L1 requests above are HUD related, of which, in all fairness is still somewhat a recent addition to what we have to use.
However if I don't say something about what we need, it'll also never become available.

If you notice, I never said anywhere that we needed these this week, next month, or 6 months from now. If I was "hoping" - I'd "like" to see us
get the main things together for alpha release by mid December this year. Besides the coding, texturing, and FREDing issues, we're not doing entirely too bad for a change. Least compared to the last 6 years we've been trudging away at this with a small skeleton crew.

Which is why I posted this now, on the tail end of 3.6.14 being finalized, so maybe... if there's anyone interested, some of these things can start being thought about for integration in the future.
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« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 08:30:37 pm by JGZinv »
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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 01:25:35 am »
About backface culling: I think that's the wrong approach to the issue. Backface culling is a very basic optimization (because it removes polygons you weren't going to see anyway, because their normal vectors indicate that they are facing away from the viewer). It's easier to just do a sort of "double sided glass" approach, where you have an inner glass layer that has inward-facing normals, and an outer layer with outward-facing ones. I do not know whether that actually works, but I do know that double transparencies do work correctly:
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Re: FringeSpace Requests
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 05:13:43 am »
Okay, I'll relay to Z since he can't see in here.

Nice engine glow there.
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